@andreas well, I never did recommend them before (not for any anti-reason), but I certainly won't be now...

@andreas I do hope to learn that it's unofficial and just a bot someone set up.

@danarel I’d assume so unfortunately with the link being in the footer of their download page.

@danarel @andreas still though, even if one of the devs is on gab, whonix still has significant anonymity protections that should not be forgotten.

@blacklight447 @andreas It's not just that they have 1 person on there. They highlight the fact they are on there on the site.

I could see that one person opened an account on their own. Not endorsing it.

@danarel @andreas i know, but the fact they use that platform does not make the whonix software any less valuable or effective.

@danarel @andreas
just because it's on topic:

the @privacytools community at matrix also supports the usage of #Gab.

It was brought to their attention that whonix promotes Gab. Arguments they responded with:
- Gab is fine
- I don't care if people use Gab
- being against Gab is the real problem

Beside the point that their arguments were supporting fascism, they also used the Appeal to ridicule fallacy, creating a toxic environment for disagreement...and more.


@syster @danarel @andreas we're working on mind control to get everyone on the same page, but the technology just isn't there quite yet.

@syster Thanks for sharing. Apologies for missing this conversation in the Matrix chat. I also help moderate there and have absolutely zero tolerance for Gab/nazis/fascists/and their apologists.

I hope PrivacyTools continues striving for a safe environment for folx (we also have a code of conduct to uphold and are held accountable to: github.com/privacytools/.githu).

@andreas that's great to hear, but bear in mind that the lead behind @privacytools is an Gab/nazis/fascists apologists.

Pointing criticism into @jonah direction, resulted in an appeal to ridicule.

And that response came from him just after I wrote:
"they [privacytools community at marix] also used the Appeal to ridicule fallacy, creating a toxic environment for disagreement."

That indicates

- jonah being an extremely unreflected person
- jonah doing it on purpose

Both is problematic.

@syster @danarel @andreas @privacytools

It is a bit disingenuous to take a single comment.

We are not endorsing Gab. Whonix, was already listed, and the upgrade to a card is us moving away from "worth mentioning" titles.

This was discussed in some detail: github.com/privacytools/privac

@syster @andreas FWIW, I have left the PrivacyTools team. I’d be lying if I said it was over this, and it wasn’t. I left for personal projects and time management mostly. But I can say when weighing the decision to leave, the convo about Whonix and it’s association to Gab made the hard decision marginally easier.

@danarel are you talking about Whonix or Gab?

I understand boycotting Gab. But, I'm not sure when it comes to Whonix.

@freddyym I won't support a product that openly panders to white supremacists.

@andreas Their "ethics" section only talks about how it's immoral to benefit from "free" software and not give anything back. No mention of marginalization in tech, opposing fascism, unionizing, or even harassment.

Sounds like they're crypto-fash to me.

@sandrockcstm @andreas Huh? Why should it? It's a free software project—I don't see why/how that's relevant. Not saying it's not an issue in itself, however.

@icyphox @andreas A centrist, not understanding why opposing fascism and harassment in tech is important?

I'm shocked.

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